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Understanding Armour Piercing and Hollow Point ammo is easy enough. However, there General Store in Goodsprings is selling 9mm +P ammo. What is the +P supposed to mean? There also seems to be some indication it does something to the condition of the gun (Gun CND x 1.20). Does this mean it does more damage to my gun than an normal 9mm ammo, or less? Or does it mean something else completely?How many other strange ammo type names are there and what are their stats like?Posts: 3407 Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:14 am. Understanding Armour Piercing and Hollow Point ammo is easy enough.
However, there General Store in Goodsprings is selling 9mm +P ammo. What is the +P supposed to mean? There also seems to be some indication it does something to the condition of the gun (Gun CND x 1.20). Does this mean it does more damage to my gun than an normal 9mm ammo, or less? Or does it mean something else completely?How many other strange ammo type names are there and what are their stats like?+P stands for '+ Pressure.' Real-world, every cartridge has a maximum allowable firing chamber pressure for safety purposes.
This pressure can be quite low for some cartridges, to account for there being antique arms in that chambering which may not be as strong as a new weapon in the same caliber. (Some.45-70 Government actually sees this effect, max pressure being set to account for US Civil War era Trapdoor Springfield rifles still in circulation)+P rounds are loaded to produce more pressure than the 'standard allowable' levels, with warnings to use them only in specific weapons designed (or at least approved) for very high-powered high-pressure rounds. Many firearms' warranty information specifically forbids use of +P ammunition, with warnings that the warranty is void the moment such a round is fired.In-game, they're more powerful (from the increased velocity, just as in reality) and cause your weapon to wear more quickly, which is the 'Gun CND'. (strain from the increased pressure, higher temperature from friction down the barrel, etc.- also true in reality, but like any game/reality wear comparison, highly exaggerated in-game)Posts: 3365 Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:25 pm.
+P ammo has an increased quantity of propellant charge.The reference is typically for.38 cal ammunition, which can come in +P or P, for use in.357 magnum firearms.I think it was given to 9mm firearms to make them less than useless, but in the real world you don't find it for semi-automatic handguns, as most semi-auto ammo is generally full to maximum load in its design state. Increased propellant load in longarms is referred to as 'express' or 'magnum'.Posts: 3546 Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:33 am. +P ammo is just loaded hotter than regular ammo. In NV it will do more damage but also wear your gun out just a bit faster. X1.20 means that that type of ammunition causes the regular amount of wear plus 2/10 more than normal ammo.
If the ammo says x3.00 that type of ammunition will wear the gun out three times faster than regular x1.00 ammunition wheras a type of ammo that says x.80 condition will cause less wear on the gun.The stats vary so much that it would take a long time to list all of them but basically each type of ammunition has one or more alternate forms of ammunition that are either easier on the gun, harder on the gun, penetrate armor better, or do much more damage against unarmored enemies but can easily be defeated by body armor. Most are a mixture between several, resulting in need for a tactical use of different ammunition.
Best bet is to experiment, find what works best for each situation and pay attention to the stats for the ammo you're using.Posts: 3330 Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:48 am. I think it was given to 9mm firearms to make them less than useless, but in the real world you don't find it for semi-automatic handguns, as most semi-auto ammo is generally full to maximum load in its design state. Increased propellant load in longarms is referred to as 'express' or 'magnum'.Its actually not less than useless and also most of it isn't sold +P. There are a wide variety of ammunition types available at your local store and only part of them are +P.Posts: 3427 Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:01 am. I stand corrected.I'm too used to Australian military 9mm which pumps out at 1400fps.I will clarify as well: I think it was given to the 9mm handguns in the game to improve performance above the 'useless against anything other than a radroach/coyote/molerat' status.To digress, I don't have much time in the real world for 9 or 10 mm. My crowd have just changed over from.357 revolvers to 10mm semi-autos, and we are a bit wary of the performance. Technically, on paper, it's comparable for what we need, but that doesn't count for much if and when your life counts on it.Posts: 3561 Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:24 pm.
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I stand corrected.I'm too used to Australian military 9mm which pumps out at 1400fps.I will clarify as well: I think it was given to the 9mm handguns in the game to improve performance above the 'useless against anything other than a radroach/coyote/molerat' status.To digress, I don't have much time in the real world for 9 or 10 mm. My crowd have just changed over from.357 revolvers to 10mm semi-autos, and we are a bit wary of the performance. Technically, on paper, it's comparable for what we need, but that doesn't count for much if and when your life counts on it.The biggest difference in between revolvers and semi automatics is ammo capacity.
My XDM has 16.40 S&W rounds at my disposal, making it much more useful than my.38 special.Posts: 3421 Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:45 am. I stand corrected.I'm too used to Australian military 9mm which pumps out at 1400fps.I will clarify as well: I think it was given to the 9mm handguns in the game to improve performance above the 'useless against anything other than a radroach/coyote/molerat' status.To digress, I don't have much time in the real world for 9 or 10 mm. My crowd have just changed over from.357 revolvers to 10mm semi-autos, and we are a bit wary of the performance. Technically, on paper, it's comparable for what we need, but that doesn't count for much if and when your life counts on it.As a side note:Look up the Strassberg Experiments sometime, it proved that enhanced muzzle velocity is just as good as a large 'manstopper' round like a.45 ACP.a 10mm, in real life, is basically the size of a.40 S&W with more powder.
The.40 S&W is still a favorite cop round with all branches including US FBI and Martials, I trust their judgment about ballistic performance.Posts: 3440 Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:27 pm. As a side note:Look up the Strassberg Experiments sometime, it proved that enhanced muzzle velocity is just as good as a large 'manstopper' round like a.45 ACP.a 10mm, in real life, is basically the size of a.40 S&W with more powder.
The.40 S&W is still a favorite cop round with all branches including US FBI and Martials, I trust their judgment about ballistic performance.The.40 S&W was pretty much forgotten until the 10mm came out. It was only after the feds and cops starting looking at the 10mm that they realized that the.40 'Short & Weak' was almost ideal in terms of having both good 'manstopper' ability (as you put it) and lack of excessive over-penetration. Sometimes you have to take one step forward in order to take two steps back to find the right solution. Too bad MacArthur didn't do the same when he insisted that the M-1 Garand be chambered for.30-06 ammunition.Posts: 3418 Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:00 am. The.40 S&W was pretty much forgotten until the 10mm came out. It was only after the feds and cops starting looking at the 10mm that they realized that the.40 'Short & Weak' was almost ideal in terms of having both good 'manstopper' ability (as you put it) and lack of excessive over-penetration.
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Sometimes you have to take one step forward in order to take two steps back to find the right solution. Too bad MacArthur didn't do the same when he insisted that the M-1 Garand be chambered for.30-06 ammunition.Wrong, the.40 Smith came after the 10mm. Development of the.40 Smith came directly after an FBI shootout in 1986. The 10mm auto was already around several years prior but was considered to produce too much recoil for use under normal conditions.then the.40 was born. I had only previously known this information because I investigated the.40 Smith and Wesson round carefully before I bought my Springfield XDM. The.40 Smith's design came from the 10mm not the other way round.3409 Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:43 pm. A tragic event with an all too serious end.Not to make light of it, but I could not help noticing the strange oddity that that article describes a gun fight with bullet injuries to the eye and groin, and one of the shooters used.223 ammo; and that it was referenced on the Fallout forum.
Where the.223 hand gun is oft mentioned along with a desire to shoot at the eyes and groin.The main reason is probably that IRL the.223 round is pretty weak and easily misses vital organs, the real benefit of it is that recoil is minimal and a rifle can be kept on target fairly easily for follow up shots. Most people use the.223 for coyotes and other small pests like groundhogs.Posts: 3422 Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:24 am. The main reason is probably that IRL the.223 round is pretty weak and easily misses vital organs, the real benefit of it is that recoil is minimal and a rifle can be kept on target fairly easily for follow up shots. Most people use the.223 for coyotes and other small pests like groundhogs.Well the.223 is also only slightly different from and functionally identical to the 5.56mm NATO round used by the US military as their main battle rifle round and the round chambered by their light squad-level weapons. Though in that case it could be argued the motivating factor is armor penetration through velocity and the much lighter ammo weight than superior kill potential. When only 1 of 10,000 or more fired rounds actually hits someone ammo weight is more important than 1-shot-kill potential.As to the 10mm, on the basis of the Strassburg Experiment and other studies of terminal ballistics I still stand by the idea that it's a viable combat pistol round, certainly more viable than the aenemic 9mm para and perhaps even more than the.45 ACP (gasp! I know).And that goes double in a post-apocalyptic setting too, the reason is simply that of armor.In real life what makes a round attractive for defense is often low overpenetration and maximum frangibility and force transfer.
That's why you see defense rounds like the glaser, which in some cases couldn't penetrate a leather jacket. But in a post-apocalypse, everyone is carrying around something heavier than a T-shirt. Whether it's boiled leather or prewar impact plastic or metal, it seems most everyone is armored to some extend. That makes low-velocity rounds like a 320 m/sec.45 ACP far less attractive than a 390 m/sec 9mm para or a whopping 450 m/sec 10mm auto.a 10mm actually probably could punch post-apocalyptic armor.Oh and to the original question: that extra powder in a 9mm +P is worth a speed of about 430 m/sec, an increase in speed and thus momentum of around 10%.Posts: 3498 Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:58 pm. Well the.223 is also only slightly different from and functionally identical to the 5.56mm NATO round used by the US military as their main battle rifle round and the round chambered by their light squad-level weapons. Though in that case it could be argued the motivating factor is armor penetration through velocity and the much lighter ammo weight than superior kill potential. When only 1 of 10,000 or more fired rounds actually hits someone ammo weight is more important than 1-shot-kill potential.Thats actually old statistics you're referencing.
Its even worse now, some online stuff I read a long time back said something over 200,000 rounds for each insurgent killed in Iraq.don't like the 5.56 round because the actual projectile is too small but it obviously works.if you hit someone enough with it.If we were basing military rounds solely on kill potential they never should've replaced the 30-06 as their service round, though I can see the benefits of having a smaller round.Posts: 3473 Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:57 am. Thats actually old statistics you're referencing. Its even worse now, some online stuff I read a long time back said something over 200,000 rounds for each insurgent killed in Iraq.don't like the 5.56 round because the actual projectile is too small but it obviously works.if you hit someone enough with it.If we were basing military rounds solely on kill potential they never should've replaced the 30-06 as their service round, though I can see the benefits of having a smaller round.Considering the 5.56mm tumbles and fractures inside soft tissue makes it an excellent wounding round. So a single 3 round burst is enough to put somebody down.Posts: 3385 Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:39 am.